BOTTLE PIPS

[pingrapid]

hi
have best fittings changed the type of bottle pip replacements

 they seem to be different from the original theoben delryn type
  thanks
pingrapid

[DB.20]

Hello Pingrapid and welcome to the forum.
I had an old bottle that had the white plastic pip that failed to seal properly and I couldn't make an effective repair. I replaced the the valve parts with BF components which cured the leak but I had problems getting the valve to open at the correct point when screwing the bottle into the block adapter fitting; tried several adjustments but the valve either opened too soon and blew the O ring seal, the bottle wouldn't screw fully into the adapter leaving a small gap and the O ring partially exposed or the valve wouldn't open at all. Had the same problems when trying new bottle and valve assembly from BF. (not had any problems with any other BF components and parts that I've used, to be fair). Wanted to keep my two Rapids as original as possible but decided to fit quick fill to eliminate the buddy bottle filling faff. Fitted Dr Bob quick fill kits to each rifle a few years ago and not had any problems.

[pingrapid]

yes got the older type best fitting bottle  it has been excelent
bought some spare valve pips from them
  they are different now  square shoukders as opposed to  tapered derlyn shoulders
  hence not sealing in my bottle.

thanks for the reply

[DB.20]

Have a gander at Dr Bob's site if you haven't already. iirc Bob supplies buddy bottle components and his stuff is top quality. It can be a real struggle trying to remove the valve assemblies from buddy bottles if you haven't got the requisite tools and equipment, especially the valve type that don't have flats on the flange. Managed to get the flange with flats type from bottles but had to take a bottle with the rounded type flange to a local diving supplies shop. Not a problem for them to easily remove it! If you decide to go for the quick fill option, I'd again recommend Dr Bob as the assembly is compact, okay aesthetically and doesn't affect the balance of the rifle. Downside is that you will most likely have to drill an hole in the stock to accommodate the fill valve connector. I went for the BF quick fill kit first time as it doesn't involve any drilling of the woodwork. Worked fine but pug ugly when fitted and knackers the balance of the rifle IMO.

[Squinty]

Best fittings valves are not the same as original Theoben valves, the pip /bore is narrower and not a replacement pip for OE
If you have a good OE valve but the pip needs renewing probably best to ask Kev to make one  (and a couple of spares)
If the valve is duff - I wouldn't recommend a BF valve, they are Ok- for BSAs but very hit and miss on Rapids
I've had  8 BF valves including 3 replacements and one that came on a gun I purchased which was buggerd because the previous owner had used a very crusty buddy bottle from Bear Divers .
Whilst the one fitted to my Superten bottle was fine. I scrapped the valves I used for my Rapid because they galled and wrecked the bottle holders.

DR Bob's valve is much better but I'm not keen on the o-ring pip seal as it compresses changing the contact point.

BFs... 8 years on and I'm still getting my £120 quids worth of moaning out of these

There have been two versions of the BF valve , Mk2's pip was updated, V1 was a solid delrim pip which tended to wear /mark quickly, not forgetting to mention that the ones I recieved were badly machined.
Their V2 has the tip 'reinforced' with a grub screw  which is supposed to stop it from getting damaged by the push-pin.
I found the valve (with either pip) started to leak very quickly.

My opinion- design issue, OE valves - Theoben and BSA (Dr Bob too)..had longer/softer springs and a single retaining plug.
BF valves have packed too much into the valve, a stiffer short spring, retainer and a safety plug/restrictor.
IMO the pip is being crushed.
There are occasions where people have needed to back off the retainer..as when fully depressed it is close to or at max compression of the spring. Obviously not something you find out until filled with air and you're struggling to get the valve fully seated on the gun.
The stiffer spring is completely unnecessary..just a bad design.

Not sure on make but notice the long spring..



 first Best fittings Mk1  ........a copy of Dr Bob???



bad design and not changed ?



super machining, not just one..all of the pips- fitted and spares

[pingrapid]

thats great advice squinty  thanks
  that has cleared it up for me

  i have best fittings mk1 bottle/pip assembly

but they have sent me the mk2  pips  [with the grub screw insert]
   my fault i didnt realize their were two types

looks like contacting dc bob

thanks again.

[DB.20]

Nicely explained Sqinty! If fitting a charged buddy bottle had been easy for me I'd have have happily used this method but it didn't work satisfactorily and was probably due to incompatible components and/or worn threads on the bottle valves and block connectors, so I went for the quick fill option. I was spoiled when I got into the, new to me, world of PCP which by then quick fill was standard. Late to the party as usual! My understanding is that the BSA S10 and early HW100 involved off rifle buddy bottle charging.

[Squinty]

was probably due to incompatible components and/or worn threads on the bottle valves and block connector

thats what I thought, worn threads on my side of things but 100% the BF valves.
It's supposedly 'tight tolerances' once the first sign of galling appeared the bottle holders were screwed.

Old OE Theoben and BSA valves would screw into any of half a dozen fast-flows and reg  new, end of production to 20+ year old- until they had been subjected to a BF valve.

I bought a 1/4BSP tap and die, the bottle bottle holders were tidied up and the OE valves screwed in again- would spun in freely.
Even after having the die run over the BF valve threads they wouldn't even do that un-pressurised.
with the
So 'tight tolerances, imperial threads cut on a metric CNC wrong grade stainless ( same grade of SS as bottle holders?)
Didn't happen with OE
Need to bear in mind that Supertens have a brass bottle holder, no galling.
Quoted from Huma website, assume the same goes for bottle valves

If you are planning to use a "Best Fittings" stainless steel Raw Regulator tester, please note these testers are cut close to the tollerances and our stainless steel regs are cut likewise. Due to the fact both items are made of the same stainless steel they are prone to fretting or galling.
Use enough and proper lubricant  to prevent this.

so I went for the quick fill option.

I also went down the quick fill route after the valve issues, had it on my FAC for a summer but  lugging a 12L cylinder out to the car and back again in the early hours was a PITA.
Much easier and more practical to have a spare buddy bottle.

[DB.20]

Thanks for posting the info regarding the BF reg testers, Squinty. I have one but not needed to use it yet. Will bear this in mind when/if I have to use it.