Hi Guys,
On my rapid 12/200, as soon as a screw the bottle back on after a fill there is air leaking out of the pellet probe, when engaged into the breach the air comes out of the barrel, any ideas?
It has a KevG reg, but the rest is standard. And oh my is it accurate, before this happened :(
Thanks in advance.
hi, its either
a) valve body o-ring
b) too much hammer pre-load
c) damaged valve- sealing face or bent valve stem
Thanks Squinty,
I've ordered an o ring kit, have never had to service this rifle and had it from new, fired hundreds of thousands of pellets, so probs due a service ::).
Its been losing air very slowly over the last few weeks, when I went to put the cylinder back on full it absolutely pi$$ed out, it was sounding funny the other night out rat bashing.
so the best thing you think is a strip and clean etc?
just the basic service - o-rings and check the condition of the valve.
If necessary buy a complete valve- body and stem (rather than just a stem).
Quote from: slurpysam on September 06, 2022, 08:46:25 AM
Thanks Squinty,
I've ordered an o ring kit, have never had to service this rifle and had it from new, fired hundreds of thousands of pellets, so probs due a service ::).
Its been losing air very slowly over the last few weeks, when I went to put the cylinder back on full it absolutely pi$$ed out, it was sounding funny the other night out rat bashing.
so the best thing you think is a strip and clean etc?
As Squinty has said, It's the exhaust valve leaking, the black plastic one that the hammer strikes the shaft, because that's the assembly which transfers air from the chamber to the barrel.
It might just be normal age related wear & tear, or it might be that some "home tuning" has been done to increase the power, like a stupid heavy hammer spring & too much preload which has caused a bent valve stem.
"Sounding funny" might have been the first sign of a bent valve stem dragging allowing excess air behind the pellet as it leaves the muzzle.
TBH if leaking past the valve is your only issue & you don't know what you're doing, I'd change the complete valve assembly but not disturb the reg to change the O rings if it's set by Kev & still good,
if it's been over sprung or the adjuster screwed up tight back it off/ refit the correct spring.
Hi Angrybear,
Nah its still shooting bang on 11.4 and uber consistent, no need to be a messin, all the parts, apart from the reg are all what it came with, not having had to mess with something thats worked like this rifle has is one of the joys of it. I also and FAC .22 rapid and a Mk 2 .25 impact, this is my barn rifle for pigeons and rats, and I get a great shot count with the reg.
Ill be needing to look through the service posts to familiarize myself with the strip down again.
Is there a sticky anywhere for the strip down and rebuild etc?
Just getting used to the layout.
Ah found em.
Here is the Problem area on the Valve-Stem/body....
(https://photos.imageevent.com/scl_electronics/gun/air/websize/sealing-face.jpg)
Problem areas...
Valve-body sealing face
The Valve-body O-ring/s
Also the Valve-stem itself. Roll it to see if it straight!!
Good Luck!
Stuart
So Started my strip down removed valve body,blanking plug, grub screw and fired out the exhaust valve, i have the black acetate one in mine, so the service bumf says replace it? it also says there is an o ring on the body, mines not got one. Now I assume it had one at some time? so wheres that gone? or am im missing something here?
Any advice would be really handy.
regards.
Can I also add that my valve stem is the two o ring type, but only has one on the rear of it, is this the norm too? Valve stem seems nice a straight.
So sorry to be bombarding you guys with this barrage of probably stupid questions, the strip done only goes so far, do i need to remove the bolt for a service to be carried out on it?
And where can we buy the replacement black exhaust valve? or is it a steel one from the likes of TR Robb?
Dr Bob is your man. He has his own thread on this forum. This is link to his website and a link to his thread on the forum..
Shop | Dr Bob (drbobsgunbits.com) (https://www.drbobsgunbits.com/shop-home)
https://rapidforum.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=27.0
The Black Acetal one's are better for general use....
Wow.. the Large O-ring on the valve-body is what seals the system!!!
Yes it is Needed...
You should not have 2 O-rings on the valve-stem only one...
On the groove towards the hammer side!!!
BTW There are No Stupid Questions... We are Here to Help!!
Stuart
KevG or Dr Bob has the Quality Spares!!!!
But if your Valve-body is OK...
No scratches or gouges in the sealing face...
It should be OK... NO Need to Replace!!!
Stuart
How come there should only be one o-ring on the stem if there are 2 grooves?
Mine has one in the rear (thanks kev) but just curious? I'd like to understand more than I do 😖
The First grove in Technical Terms... is a Interference groove...
It allow the high pressure air to enter and swirl.
The turbulence created slow down the air before it hit the O-ring!!
At least this is the thinking behind it...
BTW having 2 O-rings creates excessive friction slowing down the Valve!!!
Stuart
The thing with the valves is that different people make them with slightly different design.
I have 1 the same as Ca_V's photo, another has the 2 O rings around the "head" but in 2 separate groves, another only has 1 O ring around the head,
Most have an O ring in the angle where the "Tail" & "head" meet, (extreme right in photo) BUT there was a thread either here or t'other forum that said according to Ben Taylor it serves no purpose, it was needed on the steel valve but not on the black plastic valve ? Mine have the O ring as the blocks seem to have a recess for it.
On the stem some only have 1 groove & O ring, most 2 grooves only 1 O ring at the hammer end, one seller on the bay shows 2 O rings fitted but if pressure got between them it would 'lock' the stem, so that's wrong (I've had issues with that particular seller's products & won't touch them ever again).
"The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask, that would have fixed an issue if you had"
Cheers guys 👌🏼
I have seen and also made a couple different designs of the Valve-body...
One or two large O-rings in front of the transfer port is the norm...
Having one on the other side of the port is not needed...
That is why there is an O-ring on the Tail of the Valve-body...
Here is one of my stainless steel valve-body with a Titanium Valve-stem
(https://photos.imageevent.com/scl_electronics/gun/ultimaterapid/websize/valve2.jpg)
Stuart
Hi Guys,
Got my o ring kit, from eBay? dunno if that's a good idea or not, the kit is a one size fits all, so I wont need all the o rings, the one I'm having trouble with locating is the one for the back of the exhaust valve, the existing one is all sorts of shapes, so i cannot determine the thickness of it. This kit I've got calls the two that fit ID of the O ring (G) reg seal large and (H) larger internal fastflow/ pressure gauge seal, the G one being twice the diameter of the H one. I'm probably not explaining this very well, The kit comprises of O rings A to M, A being the bottle inner seal and the largest M being the valve stem seal and the smallest, the kit is a bagnallakirkwood kit????
Does anyone have any knowledge of this type of kit?
Quote from: slurpysam on September 07, 2022, 02:29:59 PM
Hi Guys,
Got my o ring kit, from eBay? dunno if that's a good idea or not, the kit is a one size fits all, so I wont need all the o rings, the one I'm having trouble with locating is the one for the back of the exhaust valve, the existing one is all sorts of shapes, so i cannot determine the thickness of it. This kit I've got calls the two that fit ID of the O ring (G) reg seal large and (H) larger internal fastflow/ pressure gauge seal, the G one being twice the diameter of the H one. I'm probably not explaining this very well, The kit comprises of O rings A to M, A being the bottle inner seal and the largest M being the valve stem seal and the smallest, the kit is a bagnallakirkwood kit????
Does anyone have any knowledge of this type of kit?
Sussed it via the O ring guide its H for anyone who has this kit.
This may help your figure it out...
(https://photos.imageevent.com/scl_electronics/gun/air/websize/RapidOrings_1_.jpg)
The only problem area.... is the Reg core O-rings.. many different designs... by a few different guys...
Good Luck,
Stuart
Quote from: Ca_Varminter on September 07, 2022, 03:36:55 PM
This may help your figure it out...
(https://photos.imageevent.com/scl_electronics/gun/air/websize/RapidOrings_1_.jpg)
The only problem area.... is the Reg core O-rings.. many different designs... by a few different guys...
Good Luck,
Stuart
Hi Stuart,
Do you happen to know the BS number for the buddy bottle O ring by any chance?
Quote from: slurpysam on September 07, 2022, 03:54:02 PM
Hi Stuart,
Do you happen to know the BS number for the buddy bottle O ring by any chance?
Look at the top left panel......BS111
Stuart
Finally got the o ring for the valve stem, warmed it up and the kin thing split whilst putting it on. GGGGRRRRR.
Will have to wait for another one now.
Anyone else used Seals r us kits?.
Did you give it a tiny smear of silicone grease before trying to fit it ?
I've certainly never needed to warm a Rapid seal to fit it.
If buying a kit, I get Bagnell & Kirkwood (a1tackleshop on the bay) because they come with a shadow guide to which is which.
'Seals r us' are a general seal supplier, rather than an airgun/theoben supplier .
Got back from my holiday and the new seals had arrived, from a different source, they feel much better and went on like a dream. Now im not saying the seals are us, ones are no good, its that the stem seal one was rubbish, and looks and measures a slightly different size?
I will be putting her back together today and will let you know how it goes.
what you find with the stem orings they can differ on different stems.even on genuine theobens not to mention after market
KevG
Quote from: KevG on September 20, 2022, 08:40:25 AM
what you find with the stem orings they can differ on different stems.even on genuine theobens not to mention after market
KevG
Ah I see, its all back together now, a little hot at the mo, but ill sort that out when i can get out shooting.