Continuing a thread from the 'introductions' section.
Joined this forum a few days ago. I have a Rapid 7 Mk II FAC with a Ben Taylor tweaked regulator. Have not used the gun for a while and have discovered it bleeding air from the regulator - very audibly. It has not been serviced since it went to Ben Taylor about ten years ago. So no surprise that the regulator O rings need replacing. Hopefully this is the source of the problem....
Inspired by posts and technical info on this forum I am going to have a go at servicing the regulator myself - or at least replacing the O rings. I have ordered a regulator tester from Dr Bob and replacement O rings from the auction house (plus Molykote). Will see how it goes. Good to know there is help and support through this forum if things go badly wrong.
Have been thinking for some time of having a rapid fill kit fitted - definitely not something I feel confident doing myself. Rapid fill is an advantage of more modern PCPs, but I really do not want to get rid of the Rapid 7, which I have had for 15 years or so. Would welcome thoughts on the the pros and cons of the rapid fill modification. Having the quick fit avoids the need to continually replace bottles, with associated risk of wear to O rings etc. But if servicing the regulator is relatively straight forward - say on an annual basis - maybe I can live without the rapid fill and just carry a spare buddy bottle. Any thoughts very welcome.
One question. I have got the regulator out of the block. Can it be refitted by hand with the 21mm spanner, or is some kind of torque wrench needed to get the correct tightness of fit?
Many thanks,
Steve
just nip it up with spanner m8.
KevG
Thanks KevG. Will let you know how it goes - fingers crossed. Good to have something to have a go at under the new lockdown.
Would be interested in your views on a quick fit modification. Not an immediate need, but something I have been thinking about for some time. I see Dr Bob does a 'V' option that looks good. Is this something that you may be able to do for me later in the year? For a fee of course.
Steve
For me personally I quite like having to take the bottle off to fill, Don't know if it's part of the charm of owning a Rapid but it doesn't bother me at all,
Quote from: Carl. on January 05, 2021, 01:20:39 PM
For me personally I quite like having to take the bottle off to fill, Don't know if it's part of the charm of owning a Rapid but it doesn't bother me at all,
Totally agree Carl :)
Dr Bob's QF...
If done right, Looks like belongs.
Running @ FAC power levels.
Taking the bottle on and off, can be pain...
(https://photos.imageevent.com/scl_electronics/misc/drbob/websize/Dr-bob-shroud.jpg)
(https://photos.imageevent.com/scl_electronics/misc/drbob/websize/dr-bob2.jpg)
(https://photos.imageevent.com/scl_electronics/misc/drbob/websize/dr-bob4.jpg)
Good Luck,
Stuart
Avoid the best fittings quick fill. They push the bottle forward about 50mm and it changes the balance of the gun completely. All my guns are MFR spec so don't need a quick fill.
A quick update.
O ring kit arrived today. You get about 20 O rings, of which only four are needed, so a bit of judgement / guesswork required to select the O rings needed.
Got the regulator out and cleaned up, and the four O rings replaced. Found the cause of the problem - the larger of the two O rings on the regulator core had split. Got it all back together and it works....but I have still have a minor air leak when the bolt is locked down in the rear position. Seems OK when the bolt is locked down forward - or it is there and I cannot hear it. Any suggestions welcome.
I have not yet been able to adjust the regulator as I am waiting the arrival of a reg tester from Dr Bob (on its way). Will have another go at it when the reg tester arrives. Maybe fettling the regulator will solve the problem..
Steve
it will be a valve and stem leak.could just be oring on main valve body or debris or scratch on the valve body and or stem meeting sealing faces.
KevG
if its a ben taylor reg I guess it had the thread lock shite on the brass locking collar.if so some of this could have found its way into the system causing the leak.
KevG
Thanks Kev. I have not had the valve out of the block to check it. Will do that tomorrow. And yes, the brass locking collar for the reg had threadlock shite on it. Took a while to clean off. Hopefully it is just the O ring on the valve body. No doubt one of the many O rings in the O ring kit will fit.
Really appreciate your quick response.
don't know why he used thread lock.well I do but its a bit if a bodge way around a problem.
KevG
Quote from: KevG on January 06, 2021, 07:55:05 PM
don't know why he used thread lock.well I do but its a bit if a bodge way around a problem.
KevG
Explain a bit more KevG this sound`s like its going to be good,....I`m just getting my popcorn out.
So why should we not use thread lock in reg`s any reason to why not KevG!
:)
Well the gripper oring on the brass locking collar can cause problems ie can go hard and brittle or perish and go soft.wich can effect reg settings and speed of return set pressure.the oring is only needed so you have more adjustment available while still being able to keep the locking collar gripped tight by the oring.so he did away with oring but had to thread lock the threads to stop it moving out of adjustment.besr way is have a collar that when its but up tight with out an oring and as correct travel.
KevG
Makes sense.
So, I now have a space without an o-ring, between the thread and collar, at the top of the reg. Presumably this can now cause the Reg to move out of adjustment..?
Starting to wonder whether I should get a new reg....are there better ones out there?
Steve
you can either get oring or if you have access to a lathe you can take a couple of millimetres of the brass collar on the threaded side.i make regs which are very good but the one you have will be fine once sorted.you need between 0.5 and 1mm travel on core.to check this you need nut and belleville washers removed.
KevG
Thanks KevG.
No lathe, so will explore the O ring option. Fortunately I measured the gap between the collar and thread before I dismantled the reg. So, I may just leave as is and periodically check for movement.
I have now removed the valve and stem. Had trouble getting the valve out as one of the two O rings on the valve body had split (you were right), causing the valve to stick. Repeated cocking and firing could not get the valve to budge. Concerned about damaging the valve, I used a paper clip with a hooked end to carefully hook the valve and pull it out of the chamber. Worked very well.
On to my next question. I have read that the stem should have just one O ring, on the groove nearest the spring, with the other groove left empy. My stem has the two grooves, but the O ring is on the groove furthest away from the spring (see pic).
Should I replace the O ring as currently located (away from spring), or on the other groove (nearest spring), or put O rings on both grooves?
Will also replace the other O rings - three on the valve and one on the plug. Starting to get through all those O rings in the service kit...
Many thanks for all your help with this.
Steve
your stem oring is in the correct groove.should be in rear.only one oring is needed.
KevG
Thanks again KevG.
Done and reassembled. I now have air leaking into the barrel - a lot. Have taken out the valve and stem, and put back again, but no joy. There may be minor traces of light oil in the two chambers (reg / valve) from when I was cleaning them - would that be enough to cause significant air loss?
Any suggestions welcome. Will have a other look tomorrow.
Steve
If you have a leak of air down the barrel..
There are 2 area you need to check on the Black Valve-Body.
(https://photos.imageevent.com/scl_electronics/gun/air/websize/air%20leals.jpg)
One is the Face of the Valve-Body. Make sure there are no scratches or gouges here.
If so you can chuck it up in a drill, use some fine sand paper to smooth it out.
Just maintain that Angle.
So if you changed both O-rings.. this shouldn't be a problem.
Next check the O-ring seating area in the Receiver of your Rapid.
Make sure there are no scratches or dried O-ring lube here..
Give this area a good cleaning!!!
Btw... don't forget to give those O-rings a thin film of Molykote 33... helps the O-rings seat!!
Good Luck
Stuart
Stuart,
Many thanks - will check these points tomorrow. BTW, is that metal cap part of your valve stem? Looks very different to the one in my Rapid.
Steve
Yes it is....
Well I am one of "those" rapid owners!
I make some of my parts.
That is one of my Custom Titanium Tapered valves....
(https://photos.imageevent.com/scl_electronics/gun/ultimaterapid/websize/Ti-Valve.jpg)
Stuart
If there`s one thing about Stuart i know..And that`s he just loves Titanium
Plus he seem`s to know his stuff as well very clear guy our Stuart is ;)
;)
Quote from: Kernal on January 07, 2021, 05:50:36 PM
If there`s one thing about Stuart i know..And that`s he just loves Titanium
Plus he seem`s to know his stuff as well very clear guy our Stuart is ;)
;)
Well that One can be debated!!
Here is a result of one of my early testing of my valve and valve-body design....
(https://photos.imageevent.com/scl_electronics/gun/ultimaterapid/websize/death.jpg)
I forgot to lower my hammer pre-load!!!!
So I pushed a Bis-Mag over 1200 fps, through 1400 pages...
Well I Killed a trade catalog!!!
Lucky I always used a 1/4" metal splash plate as a backstop!!
:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
Stuart
Good god i remember back in the old days my m8 used to use a catalogue to test the power of his sharp innova .22,
Tbh i wasn't so sure if the catalogue was being used for testing the power output of his gun or for something else as he was single :D
;)
Stuart,
Very impressive stuff.
Hopefully will make progress on sorting the air leak tomorrow. Otherwise I may have to give in, and send the block to a specialist.
Take care, Steve
Sadly - no joy. Maybe I need a new valve and stem, but difficult to know for sure.
Think I need to send the block to someone that can look at it properly, and maybe fit upgraded internals. Any suggestions very welcome. KevG - is this something you might be willing to do?
Steve